You just have to set the timer as you use it. Then check to see if the plumbing lines and the heaters water lines are clogged. This Navien 30010780C Circulation Pump for NPE Series is a genuine OEM repair part. An open or short thermistor can be the root cause of this problem. How do hot water recirculation pumps work to get hot water fast? The bigger the house, the longer these water pipes usually are, and the longest it takes to get hot water. If youre using this pump and cant fix it yourself, you can call a professional mechanic to fix it. Think hot water loops returning to your boiler to get reheated (to stay hot) Think LOOPS!! Separate Recirculation Pumps. Lets outline them here: To determine if installing a hot water recirculation pump makes sense for your situation, we have to check the pros and cons. Not Mounted The Pump Securely or Isolate It, Navien Tankless Water Cycles On And Off [5 Easy Solutions]. If that fails, then the pump impeller might have disintegrated or the system water pressure may be below 0 at the pump suction causing the pump to cavitate. You just have to unplug the pump, and it will be turned off. Navien Flow Sensor. This is the system you can see in the photos above. Parts that will actually be used depend on what kind of hot water recirculation pump you have. Open the hot and cold service ports and turn the pump on. Navien's patented ComfortFlow system is the first to include a buffer tank, recirculation pump and fine-tuned controls into a tankless water heater, resolving the cold-water sandwich effect* and issues of minimal flow rates commonly found in other tankless water heaters. $257.16. Now, that comes to the question, can I turn off my hot water recirculating pump? There is something wrong with limit control. A hot water recirculation pump can be sized for a given system using the following formulas: Water flow qc = /T x 4200 Average 1-6 Person Home kWh Usage, Gas Vs Electric Water Heater Monthly Cost Comparison (State-By-State), Water Heating Costs For 1,2,3,4,5,6 Family Homes (State-By-State Analysis), Electric Water Heating Cost, kWh Usage Per Month (State-By-State RECS Analysis), What Is W2 Wire On Thermostat? This might be a small installation error or a faulty setting. Close the cold and hot water inlet valves and then drain the water heater. Both of those spots are problematic though. Troubleshooting Navien NPE-240A Internal Recirculation Pump - YouTube 0:00 / 4:21 Troubleshooting Navien NPE-240A Internal Recirculation Pump RCGooner2002 240 subscribers Subscribe. This gives you a negative return on investment (ROI), so. He says both the master bath and the kitchen. Make sure the exhaust pipe is not obstructed. Hi. 14 Culprits To Check For Now, MMBTU To MMSCFD Calculator For Natural Gas + Chart, 8 Best Infrared Heaters For Indoors, Patios, Garages (With ECO Thermostats), AGM Battery Voltage Charts: 12V, 24V Deep Cycle Battery Voltage, Lead-Acid Battery Voltage Chart For 6V, 12V, 24V, 48V Batteries, Natural Gas MMSCFD To MMBTU/Day Calculator + Chart. Power Waste Connect a regular garden hose to the hot side service valve. The pump works on the existing pipes; it basically sends the leftover water back to the boiler or the heater. What parts does a home water recirculation pump include, and where to install it. The average electric tankless water heater needs at least 120 amps to work. Also, check the filters to see if they are clean. Now, when installed, the recirculating pump makes it seem that the hot water starts flowing right away like magic. 2. This type of hot water recirculation system is most appropriate for new homes; homes that are in the 3rd or 4th part of the building process. Second, you can use a flex connector to isolate the pump. Some brands/models dont include it. 5.0 out of 5 stars 3 ratings. I connected the Hot Button control board to the main PCB per the instructions. (+ Calculator), 5 Best Air Purifiers For Allergies In 2023 (+ H13 Medical-Grade HEPA Filters), Is A Tankless Water Heater Worth It? https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-DC-MOMONTROL-RM11-/350575987090?hash=item519ff50992, Navien NPE-240A2 External circulation question, Navien NPE-240A and HotButton - DIP switches and parameters, Flushing Navien 240A set up for external bypass, Navien NPE External Recirculation Confusion. There are special tankless water heater recirculation pumps for Navien, Rinnai, and Rheem units; we will cover them all. Press the + (Up) or (Down) buttons until the desired temperature appears on display. Advantages and disadvantages of hot water circulation pumps. Perhaps not everyone is familiar with the newer manual. I agree the user manuals are very helpful. To create an energy-efficient full recirculation system, your pump has to come with these two efficiency optimizing parts. The issue is most likely, the flow sensor inside the unit is not spinning correctly. Turns out, make sure you isolate the recirculation pump from the vibration. It provides information about the problem with the fan motor. Also the unit needs to be set to utilize the recirculation feature. Remove the front cover of the water heater. Tankless Water Heater Wire Size Calculator: What Gauge Wire (AWG)? Press the M (menu) button on the front panel and choose the 1. Eric Alvarez is an HVAC guy based in El Paso, Texas, United States. To remedy this, you can take the two clamps off the sensor, pull it out and clean it. rev2023.3.3.43278. Can a Hot Water Recirculating Pump cause low water pressure? How To Fix Navien Tankless Water Heater Code E003? Hello David, well, the additional costs are a con here. 08. The recirculation pump is fixed on the water heater. Turning off the water recirculating pump isnt a big deal. Return this item for free. That install is exactly as specified in the newer manuals. These processes are so easy that you can even install a water recirculating pump by yourself! Is this a common drawback with the under-sink crossover valves, for the heater to turn on when a cold water faucet is turn on? Pump the white vinegar into the cold side, up through your water heater, and out the hot side. It will help you avoid common water heater issues and let you operate the unit smoothly. Ensure you mount the pump securely. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. That means that all the costs of the hot water circulation pump are covered by the water savings. I'm fairly handy with DIY plumbing, but not and expert and I know when I am out of my league. Where did you find that info? Low gas supply which prevents proper heating of water, Damaged flow sensor preventing proper supply of gas to the heater. You can isolate the pump from the vibration in two ways. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. On a side note, if your Grundfos circulating pump is making sounds, it may have air locks or installation problems. This serves two functions: You save water. Does the thing have a 'vacation' mode? Turning off your water recirculating pump reduces damage. The E760 informs you that its time to flush your heater. Because a water recirculating pump provides us instant hot water. And. But, making sure youre doing it the right way is important. Any tips on where to verify if I have a dedicated return line? Find applications from Grundfos related to this subject. You can adjust the temperature by the below 10-degree increments, depending on the temperature range: 98 F-120 F/ 36 C-50 C 1 F or 0.5 C increments, 120 F-140 F /50 C-60 C Press for 2 seconds to adjust in 5 F or 2C increments. The large valves should be in the off position, whereas the service valves should be in the on place. Can this be moved to another sink in the house that is not used as often ? He obtained his Bachelor of Science degree from the University Of Texas at El Paso. Yes, you can turn it off by yourself. 10.6 Maintenance 10.7.3 NPE-180A/240A Pump P-Q Curve The Navien NPE-180A and NPE-240A water heaters that are used . The cold water pipe coming from the wall goes into the domestic water inlet on the tankless heater, as it should. Press the Power button on the front panel to turn on the water heater. Turn the pump off and dump the vinegar. Make sure there are no loose connections. Well tackle the installation and running costs of a circulating pump in full near the end. air), Latent Heat (BTU/hr) = 0.69 x CFM x gr. Make sure to follow our instructions properly for the right application. If the problem persists after reset, replace the APS as soon as possible. and our By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. It worked perfectly. I mounted the contact switch inside the cabinet per the kit instructions. Lets start by looking at how these pumps actually work: If it takes forever for the hot water to start running, it usually means that there is a long pipe between a boiler (or a hot water heater or tankless water heater) and the faucet. Many systems turn on and off automatically to keep the water within a specified temperature range. The error code E736 informs about the issue in cascade communication, and error code E740 indicates that the outdoor temperature sensor is not working correctly. These are the kinds of issues that can occur if you aren't aware of the automatic appliances that are connected to your system (and don't shut them off along with the water). The disadvantages of recirculating pumps include waiting for cold waters (its a less-known disadvantage), having to install additional wiring, and so on. This unit doesnt have dip switches as far as I undersrand. I kind of feel like he is trying to get away with something that wasnt installed properly but hopefully I am wrong. Grundfos water recirculation pump may troubleshoot sometimes. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? How Much Does 500 Watts Cost Per Hour? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Where does this (supposedly) Gibson quote come from? The air will need to be bled out of the system. This error informs you there is something wrong while you reset the unit. A hot water recirculation pump can be sized for a given system using the following formulas: Water flow qc = /T x 4200 Refer to the user manual to locate the Hot Button and then press it to activate hot water recirculation. if your water heater has 4 connections (CW in; HW out; condensate; gas) then the recirculation occurs within the water heater - IMO don't see the benefit in this setup as the water in the HW distribution system doesn't see flow . There are several ways to do it. Hi Patrick, thats a good insight. Actually the only real issue is the lack of isolation valve on the recirculation connection, resulting in the constant water supply to the water heater. You can turn it off during work hours, over the night, when you go on vacations, and so on. Circulation pumps can wreck havoc on your lines if you run them constantly due to friction at bends causing pinhole leaks. It is brand new in the original Navien factory packaging and is guaranteed to fit and function properly. Patrick. Here are some of the leading causes of cold water production; Which means there isnt enough time for the water to heat up. Besides, the E782 indicates that there is something wrong with the main panel communication. This gives users hot water when they need it, saving water and money. Below, I will break down everything to stop the buzzing noise. Fits These Models It shows that the heating return thermistor is not working correctly. The circulation return needs to come from a loop at an end of the hot supply line. but you stopped short for me. It is important to note that recirculation pumps dont work continuously; they are used only when we open and close the faucet. This can be determined based on the following factors: The average water usage for different hot water uses are as follows; Check this too: Insinkerator Hot Water Dispenser How-to & Troubleshooting Guide. Nobody really likes waiting for the hot water to start flowing under the shower or doing the dishes, for example. That may present a problem in the summer when you need cold water; turning the pump off during the summer months solves the problem. Take care! Why Does My Stiebel Eltron Tempra High-limit Switch Keep Tripping. Recirculation valve for use with NPE-A series tankless water heaters Designed for recirculation of domestic hot water in applications where a dedicated return line is not available. What I imagined would happen is 3-4 seconds of cold and then super hot water that was just waiting for me from the recirculation. Examine and clean the filter in a cold water inlet. Foreign materials like small pebbles may get into the recirculation pump. Open the pressure relief valve. Is there a recirculating pump for the tankless water heater known as Trutankless? Purchasing a timer will also fix the problem. To remedy the issue, consider increasing the gas supply to the heater. Start by turning off the service valves and removing the hoses. Apart from that, you can easily turn it on/off on your mobile whenever you wish. Some pumps, in order to avoid needing a dedicated return path, will recirculate the water via the cold water supply, so getting some hot water from the cold supply would be normal in this case. But, yes, I understand why it seems feasible for the sediment to eventually enter the water flow and cause the change in taste of water. This happens when you have a huge heater and lower gas output. Both types of systems have similar pros and cons. We dont. Also, turn off the water heater, and recirculate the pump. On top of that, the recirculating pumps also return the cold water in the pipes back to the heater. Hi: I've bled the system top and bottom and even removed the return line then switched to internal pump yet it still makes this noise. We have one faucet in the kitchen that has instant scalding hot water the second you turn it on . Next, check and remove the intake filter from the heater. When its time to work with a recirculating pump, you should follow some instructions to avoid further hassles. Then, you can change the tank thermistor if needed. Do you want to know the details? Examine and confirm the pressure sensor and wiring are in good condition. (1000-3000+ Sq Ft Homes), Thermostat Says Heat On But No Heat? The recirculation timer is set to operate ever 15 minutes, even though we are often not at the property. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. qc = the circulating water flow [m3/s] Carbon monoxide (CO) is a tasteless, colorless, odorless, and highly poisonous gas which can be deadly to humans in high concentrations. However, I have envious of those who have the NPE with the hot button and wifi link. Thanks! The function of a recirculating pump is to ensure that hot water is always available as close to the consumption point as possible, in order to reduce water waste and to increase comfort. Read the users Navien nr-240a manual to get information on how to flush the heat exchanger and reset the remote for Navien tankless water heater. If you have a Navien tankless water heater this can be done by simply pressing a . I have the newest version pcb since I just bought the tankless. Is this correct for the function of the system? (Cost Calculations), BTU/h To Horsepower Calculator + BTU/h To HP Chart (To 72,000 BTU/h), Horsepower To BTU/Min: Convert HP To BTU Per Minute (Calc + Chart), HP To BTU/hr: Horsepower To BTU For A/C (Calculator + Chart). The recirculation pump will make a squeaking noise if the installer fails to install the primary loop correctly. Also, check if the electrical cord is grounded correctly or not. It is propelled only by water pressure. (+ Installation Costs), How Many Amps Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? If you have come back from a vacation, first turn on the main water valve. Heres the deal on how to get the hot water faster from a water heater: When we turn on any faucet, the hot water needs to travel from the hot water heater to the faucet. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. It is caused by an open or shorted air pressure sensor. This is because the motherboard or control board is the units brain responsible for receiving and transmitting information in the heater. So, hire a professional to deal with the issue. Your question, can I turn off my hot water pump? has been answered. In his spare time, Oscar loves tinkering with electronics. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? We want to reduce waste in using water given our well situation. Not sure I am understanding. Then re-insert the filter and screw it back in place. It sounds awful and not like any other recirculating pump I've ever heard. The recirculation pump saves on water bills by reducing the time to get hot water. Cookie Notice Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Here is the summary of all the negative aspects of hot water circulation pumps: This is the key question. That means that the cold water is not actually cold; it will usually be slightly warm (at room temperature). If the problem does not get resolved, replace the motherboard or control board or hire a professional t do it. Place the filter assembly back into the water heater and secure it with the screw. I have a tankless water heater with an external recirculating pump at the heater and a crossover valve under the kitchen sink. Having a tankless water heater is an energy-efficient way of getting hot water. If you are unsure of whether the recirculation pump was correctly installed, contact Navien technical center or the NSS agent who installed the heater. Yes!!! Rather than using the hard wired door bell style push button that comes with the kit, I bought this remote control unit (. Thanks. Hi Howy, well, the circulating pumps are usually powered by electricity, so they dont use gas. Question: Can a recirculating pump last for 10-15 years?Answer: If you use it properly, it should last at least 10-15 years. Is there a check valve? Once the display stops flashing, the temperature setting is stored. This is because the sensors are corroded over time which causes them to shut the heater down. Hello Irving, Trutankless is an Arizona-based brand of tankless water heaters with built-in recirculation pumps. 2. The only problem you have is there is no check valves in place check valves or like stop signs that direct traffic check valves, direct to flow of water. If your pump does this, then it is to be expected, otherwise it sounds like the hot and cold are mixing at some point and you'd need to find out where . One option is to put a relay/contactor between the Navien and the internal pump, so that that pump can only get power when the house is occupied. Turn the unit off. The upfront cost is a major deterrent when deciding if it makes sense to install a circulation pump or not. It is affordable and can easily fix your problem. Otherwise, this will cause the shut-off valve to get damaged. Quick summary on costs: Recirculating a pump is certainly useful if you want hot water quickly. Can I swap out the mainboard in the NR240A to an NPE240A board to get all that features? You May Forget to Purge The Recirculation Pump, 03. It's unfortunate he's not around to explain all this to you. We recommend to use caution and seek the advice of qualified professionals. $44.90. You dont have to install an additional pipe. Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? Ensure all return and supply lines are open and check the 2-way valves direction. However, if it generates annoying or buzzing noise, there is something wrong with the system. I am contemplating getting the NPE-180A and controlling the pump with a remote control in each bathroom. What am I doing wrong here in the PlotLegends specification? You can set it to run in the morning before work, and in the evening. Close the isolation valves to the cold-supply and recirculation lines. This setup is very similar to the one I have with my 40 gallon tank setup with recirc/return line by using an X10 home automation module to program the remote to turn the pump on for 4 minutes and automatically turn off whenever someone presses it before taking a shower. And the heater has been set to recirculation mode. Its really an easy task to do. First, open and close the pressure relief valve, which is located near the units outlet. This chapter will reveal all the possible culprits that cause the recirculation pump of your Navien to make a humming noise. We always take the pros vs. cons approach because nothing is perfect. It also increases the gas bill. Now, you have to know the hows for reducing damage. Make sure the major electrical cord is grounded correctly. This time of year, we dont need to have instant hot water circulating so we turned off the pump. 3. In fact, however, the whole machinery of the hot water recirculating pump has to be activated for this to happen. Eventually, they pay for themselves by reducing the water bills. Hi Mike, we think about water as hot vs. cold. If the issue persists, contact your original installer or an NSS to service the sensor. However, the plumber branched this off into the circulation water inlet. Turn off your main water valve if you are going on vacation. Do not advertise or try to compare pricing. Only 19 left in stock - order soon. Examine the wiring and thermistors condition. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. However, if you want hot water fast, these on-demand heaters are not ideal. All you have to know is how to turn it off. You can contact a plumber if necessary. 1. The major difference with hot water pumps in new homes is that you can install a full recirculation pump system (Type #1). A family of 4 with normal water usage can expect to save $50-$75 a year. Is the plumbers reasoning valid here? Create a chart to regulate hot water usage. You can tell because the cold supply line is connected to the circulating return. Where is the 2 internal drain valve in Navien 240a tankless water heater (damaged needs replacement), Shower gradually cools, gets hotter when sink is on. With the NRCR you can set your own schedule with a remote accessory and tailor the integrated pump to your lifestyle or scheduled needs. Similarly, if the return from the loops is mixing with the boiler loop system and cooling off the water before it gets sent to the recirculation pump, you will face this problem. By installing a hot water circulation pump, you will have a hot shower right away. If the external recirc is set up without this it will just run, defeating the purpose of hot water on demand. Your Navien Recirculation Pump will make a humming noise like a refrigerator if you dont bleed the air out of the recirculation system. Additionally, you can install a 5-micron filter in the water inlet right before the heater to remove impurities from the water. Normally uncontrolled pumps are used as the flow variation is relatively small. Its not exactly normal.